Lockers and what's wrong with my wussy TJ

[BillDrake]

RE: Hello..........

So, I was out with my kid trying a rough trail start, above a housing development area (not exactly tough terrain!!). We get up the first couple feet of steep mud bank with big rocks, and my kid says my front and rear wheel, across from each other, are spinning! Then some honking lifted YJ comes and plows right up, after he set his lockers. I know someone else who has lockers that are stock on his old beat-up tracker. What's the deal? Is the stock TJ 4WD system weaker than other, older 4X4's? Did lockers used to be a standard option? What can I get for my lame beast? My jeep, child and I slunk home in shame....

 

[laneiac]

Do you drive it on the street more or offroad?

 

[BillDrake]

RE: Lockers and what

As much off road as work and my kid's school allows! Main reason for the jeep is to take us to trailheads year round, as we are hooked on backpacking/snowshoeing. But getting to wilderness places when there isn't time to trek by foot is beginning to become a new pastime for us! (FYI: 99 2.5 litre TJ, with: 2" susp. lift, 30" pro comp m/t, air intake, TB spacer, cat-back exhaust, short-throw shifter, headlights

 

[GaryMB]

RE: plugs and wires

As far as i know the rubicons are the only tj's that come with lockers. I don't know about the yj's, but some cj's came with limited slip. If you want to lock up your axles, aussies will be cheap (relatively) but will lock up on the street too, and for a bit more money you can get a good part time locker like an ARB, OX, or Electrac. Of course Detroit makes pretty sturdy automatic lockers, but they will lock up on the street like the aussie. I'm not sure if all those companies make lockers for the tj axles though.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

RE: 2002 Wrangler Wheels, Bolt Pattern?

I don't recall any of the YJ's coming with stock lockers or LSDs. I know the earlier CJ's had some, as well as the Rubi like Gary said. Don't fret about not being "one of the guys" when you've been outclimbed by another Jeep.....most Jeepers will just see you as a work in progress. I'll bet if you'd had the time, the guy with the lockers would have stopped and given you some ideas on what to do with your TJ to make it better! Most Jeepers seem to be that way.

 

[LVRockCrawler]

RE: OBA question

my 89 has the limited slip rear and open front - that will change soon w/posi-lok or something similar - but like sparky said - dont be discouraged... no matter what you build, theres always the chance someone will show thats bigger/faster/stronger... see it as inspiration - not intimidation... build it as time and $$$ allows and soon enuff you'll be the one who's passing some guy on the hill... its a never ending process... like when i had my harleys - "its not the destination... its the ride!"

 

[Junkpile]

RE: OBA question

Then some honking lifted YJ comes and plows right up, after he set his lockers

He must have had selectable lockers. These are available from several sources, which have already been listed. This type of locker lets you retain the open diff operation that you now have, when they are unlocked. Once manually locked, they provide constant equal torque split to both wheels on that axle. Lockers weren't a factory option(still aren't really) until the Rubicon package came out. They use this manual type locker.
The other option is an auto locker. The auto locker is always doing it's thing. Locking-unlocking-locking......it will change the characteristics of your Jeep when driving on the road, but it's alway there-ready for action. Once you get used to it, you'll love the simplicity and reliability compared to the more "civilized" selectable unit.
You could also run a welded diff, or lincoln locker. This is butch, but works fine if you can live with it. It's ALWAYS locked up, the differential action is totally removed even when coasting. Just as if you had replaced the differential with a spool.
Limited slips are another option, and probably the best for the front axle in most applications. The limited slip is a torque biasing diff that will provide at least partial torque split between the wheels at all times. Call it "middle of the road". Rear LS units have been an option for a long time, although the factory offerings aren't the best units in the world.

 

[laneiac]

RE: Eastern Shore Chaos

Aussie's are great lockers, they are very smooth for a lunchbox locker, pretty good road manners. Start with a rear locker, maybe just a lunchbox locker like a Lock Rite, which is pretty simple on the install side. If you can live with it, step up to a detroit or keep the Lock Rite. Something like an ARB is great, just very expensive to buy and set up when compared to the other locker options, and ARBs are a little more prone to failure than other lockers.

 

[Sully]

RE: Sunday Night

The older 4x4 systems seam to get better traction while the newer models get as much on road driveability as possible and still have 4x4 capability. Newer stuff has open and optional limited slip. Limited slip is pretty affordable, capable offroad, and still handles good onroad unlike most lockers. Hard lockers are great offroad. You will get zero slip all the time. But when you hit the road. It will be a little jerky. My brother runs a detroit in his Tj. It is jerky when you shift and take turns under acceleration. But nothing that you cant get used to. And it's 10x's better offroad than the open or limited slip. I run the ARB's. They are quite pricey. What's cool about the ARB is you can unlock them for street use and it's like running an open diff. You have to sacrifice something for either locker. It all depends on what you want to do with it. My opinion is this, throw a loc right in there and be done with it.

 

[Robrt-Stephens]

RE: gas prices

So, I was out with my kid trying a rough trail start, above a housing development area (not exactly tough terrain!!). We get up the first couple feet of steep mud bank with big rocks, and my kid says my front and rear wheel, across from each other, are spinning! Then some honking lifted YJ comes and plows right up, after he set his lockers. I know someone else who has lockers that are stock on his old beat-up tracker. What's the deal? Is the stock TJ 4WD system weaker than other, older 4X4's? Did lockers used to be a standard option? What can I get for my lame beast? My jeep, child and I slunk home in shame....

What you witnessed is two very amazing rigs---yours and his. The difference was simply lockable lockers like an ARB or an OX or others now on the market.

If you'll type in ARBs or OX or the like in a search, you'll get all te informatiom about how they work, what they do, and what they will do for you.

I've been running ARBs for 15 years now and they change.......... everything.........

Lockers at work, and two Jeeps, stuck, without them, all CJ-7s. The front Jeep is mine with ARBs and chains front and rear. The snow on the front of VEX is from dozing and opening the trail some so the other two buddies could at least move forward. That day and night we got another 2 feet of snow in the north section of Montana, and only VEX could get around out of the three of us and three more guys who couldn't make it this day and the next.

Good luck with the Locker investigation.

 

[Robrt-Stephens]

RE: gas prices

..........compared to the other locker options, and ARBs are a little more prone to failure than other lockers.

Not being casutic or such, but I differ with you strongly on that part of your quote above. I've ran about every locker out there over the years and many of them either wore out or failed. I broke Detroits all the time so when the ARB was available here in the US about 1990, I got my first set. I have ran them for these 15 years with never a failure.

Just a thought.

 

[88Wrangles]

A lot CAN go wrong with either the air supply, or the air lines. Air lines are easy to rip open, even if they're hidden away in a "safe" spot.

May I ask what Detroit's you were breaking? If you get the plain old Detroit locker (not that soft locker or whatever it's called), it should never break. I'm running one in my 10.5" 14 bolt with 44" TSL's and around 510ft/lbs or torque and I have had no trouble with it....and I run it hard :wink: :wink: (by the way that's on a full size, 6,800 lb Chevy)

 

[felix_santi]

RE: Re: RE: gas prices

Lockers will make a difference, both good and bad. Good is that it opens up a range of trails for you. Bad is that when you get stuck..you get stuck. I put mine in after 2yrs of wheeling with a trashloc on the rear 44 and open 30 up front. Have not looked back since.

 

[laneiac]

..........compared to the other locker options, and ARBs are a little more prone to failure than other lockers.

Not being casutic or such, but I differ with you strongly on that part of your quote above. I've ran about every locker out there over the years and many of them either wore out or failed. I broke Detroits all the time so when the ARB was available here in the US about 1990, I got my first set. I have ran them for these 15 years with never a failure.

Just a thought.

You left out the first half of that statement, the price of the ARB and the price to install. A Detroit runs around $500 bucks. No air lines to break, no compressors to install, no wires, no switches. To me, thats a lot more components that can fail than what can in a Detroit. I have seen countless rigs have problems with their ARB's, and the next guy with the Detroit just keeps on going. This could be due to poor set up or perhaps a "fluke", but again, there are many more components that can fail in an ARB setup. I do agree that the ARB in itself is not to blame. I too would like to know what Detroits you were breaking "all the time".

 

[TwistedCU]

There is nothing more convienient or better performing than a selectable locker if you spend the money and do them correctly.

I am a cheaper route kind of guy in many cases, and probably won't spend that kind of money for them, but I will not discount that they are probably the best setup.

 

[Snitty]

Hey Bounty... Step up to the podium and tell the audience about your setup, its reliability, its pros/cons, and how much you love it.

 

[Robrt-Stephens]

..........compared to the other locker options, and ARBs are a little more prone to failure than other lockers.

Not being casutic or such, but I differ with you strongly on that part of your quote above. I've ran about every locker out there over the years and many of them either wore out or failed. I broke Detroits all the time so when the ARB was available here in the US about 1990, I got my first set. I have ran them for these 15 years with never a failure.

Just a thought.

You left out the first half of that statement, the price of the ARB and the price to install. A Detroit runs around $500 bucks. No air lines to break, no compressors to install, no wires, no switches. To me, thats a lot more components that can fail than what can in a Detroit. I have seen countless rigs have problems with their ARB's, and the next guy with the Detroit just keeps on going. This could be due to poor set up or perhaps a "fluke", but again, there are many more components that can fail in an ARB setup. I do agree that the ARB in itself is not to blame. I too would like to know what Detroits you were breaking "all the time".

Your experience is off from mine, but valid of course. The Detroits I was running was their standard locker, whatever that was, pre-1990 back to 1980, when I got my first setup. Before that I ran Auburns. They rattled and scraped tires with buffing, noisy and would fail in rocks in creek beds and in the jungle or woods where one was traversing wet, slimy, no traction downed logs and the wheel that slipped and hit the ground while the other was on the log would crack and then fail. That was then.

As mentioned, in the 14-15 years of the ARB world, no failures. I did re-rig my air lines and then that took care of the three breaks I had in brush and sticks cross country in the first 6 months as I tested their weaknesses. Other than that, no failures.

 

[TwistedCU]

Keep in mind that an auto locker can be hard on an axle due to it's sudden locking up, this is especially true when runing large tires on stock axles.

A selectable locker removes this factor, as does a spool or lincoln locker (which is what Snitty is getting at )

 

[laneiac]

Yes, Bounty and his spools. I will eventually run spools front and rear when I swap to axles that will support them and my YJ is no longer my DD.

"Your experience is off from mine, but valid of course. The Detroits I was running was their standard locker, whatever that was, pre-1990 back to 1980, when I got my first setup. Before that I ran Auburns. They rattled and scraped tires with buffing, noisy and would fail in rocks in creek beds and in the jungle or woods where one was traversing wet, slimy, no traction downed logs and the wheel that slipped and hit the ground while the other was on the log would crack and then fail. That was then.

As mentioned, in the 14-15 years of the ARB world, no failures. I did re-rig my air lines and then that took care of the three breaks I had in brush and sticks cross country in the first 6 months as I tested their weaknesses. Other than that, no failures."

When you mention failures are you refering to the Auburns? Or the Detroits? If your refering to the Auburns, I must say that they are just like a Lock Rite, and very easy to break. If you are refering to a Detroit, I have a hard time believing it because they are the tried and true locker of choice for many competitors, and if they were breaking while crossing logs, they surely would break behind a 300 hp motor while clmbing rocks the size of a VW. I must say though, that if I had the money, or time and expertise to set up ARB's, I would probably run one, at least in the front if I wanted a streetable rig. But the cost of them versus others out there (especially a spool for a trail rig) is just too much to bear. I also must add that ARB's and their price seem to be a little extreme for what Bill's setup is, 30's with a 2" lift. It makes more sense to stick with a cheaper alternative. If he wishes to progress further, then ARB's may be the route. But why dump the money into a D35 and D30? Save it for a custom axle or a swap. I also must add, I really welcome this debate. That is what makes these forums so fun, and also helps other people realize why others run what they run. Dont take any of my retorts as an attempt to argue or be rude, I am just interested in why you would choose an ARB over other, cheaper alternatives.

 

[GaryMB]

Quick question here: Is Detroit the only automatic locker that replaces the whole carrier? Right now i have an automatic locker that has its own aftermarket carrier like a detroit does, and I'm not sure what brand it is. What I do know though is that it won't unlock, and when I pulled off the diff cover metal chunks came pouring out. Whatever brand that locker is, it is apparently not indestructible.